In Conversation: Ellie Clewlow & Deborah Snell discuss their work for 'Spin me a yarn'

G&T: Thank you both for finding the time to speak with us and tell us a bit more about your work, ideas and processes. Initial ideas for bringing together this exhibition were centred around the stories and plays of William Shakespeare, owing to this being the 400th year Anniversary of the Folio being published. 

Deborah Snell, The Wrong Bird (Romeo & Juliet), Lithograph on Somerset Satin paper, 36 x 43cm, Ltd edition of 12, £295 Framed, £185 Unframed, 2023

Deborah, could you tell us a bit about what attracts you to Shakespeare’s works and why you choose to respond to them as source material for your work?

DS: I was really drawn to the sense of fantasy and farce in some of his plays. But also to the possible staging of them: actors overacting and missing their cue and flimsy scenery. Male actors playing female roles who were disguised as men, (women weren't allowed on stage).

The pastoral comedies have many great moments ripe for interpretation, a man being eaten by a bear, a talking ass etc.  Also stories of contrasts, between nature (Forest of Arden) and the artificial (Royal Court). I spent a great deal of time concentrating on masked figures in the masquerade ball. (Something I think I will use again). 

Ellie Clewlow, Palimpsest VIII (child, girl, woman), Reused paper books, 75 x 75cm, 2023, £380 Framed (unglazed)

Ellie Clewlow, The Paper Frock, Reused paper books, c.80cm x 40cm x 30cm, 2023, £350

G&T: Ellie, like Deborah you’ve made new work specifically for this exhibition, in your case responding to David Hockney’s etchings, can you tell us a bit about your initial thought process and what you wanted to respond to and make work about?

EC: My starting point was to go back to the texts…or what I thought were the texts. I started by reading all the Grimms’ Fairy Tales, and then by reading around them, from academic texts about their historical development from oral tradition, to curation in published form by collectors like the Grimms, and then on into modern adaptation by authors like Angela Carter. I wanted to make work that reflected upon and brought together those multiple layers of historical development. I’ve chosen to do that in what I call palimpsests; re-using pages from a variety of secondhand story books, but in a way that you can still see traces of what was there before.

G&T: I get the sense that your ideas process is very much inspired by an academic approach to research, can you say a bit more about why this is important to you? Or what findings that are peculiar to this approach that are pertinent in the making of these works?

EC: My professional past as a historian and archivist does show at times! My work is both made from books, and also informed by their contents. As I was reading, I was looking for patterns. I was struck by the repetition in the stories of a small number of words to describe women: maiden, princess, and, of course, stepmother. I chose to reflect those patterns in the palimpsests, translating the words used to describe women into Morse code to create the black and white patterns you can see in the palimpsests.

Having said all that, there are also creative moments that are purely impressionistic. I came across a line in one of the stories that described a girl being forced by her stepmother to go outside in the middle of winter wearing a paper frock. I knew I HAD to make that paper frock, emerging from a book of the fairy tales from which it originated.

D.S. I love the reference to the paper frock!


G&T: Perhaps conversely Deborah, you have a less dutiful approach to the source material and enjoy taking on the more stylised ideas of a story and running with this to create a morphed version of your own. Are there more tales or imagery that feeds into this as well, or do you create evolving sketches to help these ideas take form?

DS: It’s usually a piece of text or poem that sparks my imagination.

I love to see the world through a character’s eyes, discovering new perspectives. Creating a character- whether it's through drawing or model making- is a bit like acting. You have to see the world through their eyes; what they wear, how they stand, their facial expression, how they react to other cast members in the scene/picture. I begin with a character sketch and it evolves from there.

I’m really drawn to dark tales but something daft usually creeps in. The work of Edgar Allen Poe, M.R James, Neil Gaiman and Charles Dickens - I love a crinoline. 

Deborah Snell, Exit Pursued by a Bear (Winter's Tale), Lithograph on Somerset Satin paper, 36 x 43cm, Ltd edition of 20, 2021, £295 Framed, £185 Unframed

G&T: You’re able to make work in a variety of mediums, in lithography, drawing and puppetry, and even in video. Do these different mediums require different approaches?

DS: I enjoy collaborating with other people to bring my ideas to life. Lee Turner from Hole Editions worked with me on the limited edition lithographs for this exhibition, which started with me drawing directly on the litho stone.

Whatever the final outcome, it always starts with a drawing, whether it’s an interesting face I've seen fleetingly on the metro that might inspire a puppet or an underwater digital animation. I have shelves and shelves of sketchbooks that I sometimes revisit if I have a specific character in mind.

G&T: You’ve both referenced Angela Carter, and are in differing ways dissecting or reclaiming the fairy tale structure. Ellie, can you say a bit about why you are doing this?

EC: For me this was about the role that authors like Angela Carter and Helen Oyeyemi occupy in the historical development of fairy and folk tales. In the western European tradition, women had historically occupied central roles as storytellers, spinning yarns while spinning yarn. I felt that their voices were somewhat sidelined as the stories were collected, reshaped, and published by men like the Grimms. As modern authors tell their own stories, we once again have women telling stories in ways of their own choosing.

Ellie Clewlow, Palimpsest XIII (stepmother), 31 x 40 x 4cm, 2023, £180

G&T, you mention how women as spinners or craftspeople were moulding the text as they told these tales, and how this relates to your layered process of paper sculpting. Could you say a bit about the significance of craft in your work and the methods of making you choose?

EC: These folk and fairy tales were borne out of an artisanal, pre-industrial society, and when you read a lot of them together, it’s hard not to be struck by the various ways in which craft is central to the story: from the magical spinning straw into gold, to the maiden demonstrating her virtue through her making skills, and the women who looked for ways to avoid the labour of the wheel or the loom. I wanted to honour that in my own medium, paper. I enjoy the challenge of taking craft techniques from one medium and seeing if I can translate those to paper. When I set myself the challenge of making the Paper Frock, I didn’t want to just take a piece of paper and cut out a garment, but instead chose to find ways to spin, weave, and sew in my own way. I shredded leftover paper into strips to make my ‘yarn’, wove the yarn to make my ‘fabric’, and then sewed my fabric into a dress [You can see a process video here: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuKfz5FIdyM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== ]

Deborah Snell, Rosalind, Polymer, watercolour, fabric, 2023

G&T: I know you’ve both been working hard to make work for this show, but I’m also interested in any other projects or ideas that you’re currently working on or what to take forward?

EC: I am currently working on a couple of modular origami quilts that draw on Northern traditions of quiltmaking, and I’m also developing my skills in making inks and pigments from natural materials like seaweed and sea coal. 

The idea that is percolating at the moment is to combine paper weaving and algorithmic pattern-making to develop a handwoven paper fabric, coloured with pigments made from materials foraged from the North East coastline. My very own NE coastal tartan perhaps?

DS: I love that idea of making pigments from natural materials Ellie.

Into the Deep, my music video has been shortlisted for the 2023 Sunderland Short Film Festival, (I created the artwork in collaboration with Multiminded Design). So I'm looking forward to meeting like minded people and seeing it on the big screen. I’ve also been working on some scenes from Angela Carter’s short stories for a series of etchings and aquatints. Then, I've got an urge to create some wild rugged coastline scenes from The Tempest with earthy colours. And those masked figures are still lurking in the wings..

Thank you both so much for your time and letting us in to your ideas!